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SteveHazard

More Abandoned Places and Volunteer Cabins in Alpine CA.

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This first one I thought was a cool find because I was expecting either nothing to be here or find something in some sort of disrepair. Turns out all it really needs is a few more tools and a bit more care on the trees around the cabin. I'll have another vid on an mine camp and another volunteer cabin from this day as well later. 

 

And here is a vid of the Sideburn Cabin. DesertDog did a vid on this one awhile ago and you can that the porch roof has since collapsed and some dumbass painted some smurf or genie character on it. I think I saw this same stupid character outline painted on the inside of an outbuilding up at Skunk Harbor of Lake Tahoe.... 

 

And the little explorers perspective of the Sideburn. Her narration may be more interesting then mine. 

 

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3 hours ago, SteveHazard said:

Thanks. Will have another few of the area. 

 

Are those close to the Golden Gate Mine?

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1 hour ago, NevadaGeigle said:

Are those close to the Golden Gate Mine?

The only vid I have done near the Golden Gate Mine was of the lone cabin when it was a really smokey day. I have yet to go up Mill Canyon and explore that direction. The other vids I have filmed already are both in the Ebbetts area. 

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I want to get into that mine so bad.  But I don't want to trespass, and I can't get the listed owners to return letters/calls.  Ugh.  So frustrating.

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On 8/27/2018 at 2:22 PM, desertdog said:

I want to get into that mine so bad.  But I don't want to trespass, and I can't get the listed owners to return letters/calls.  Ugh.  So frustrating.

Is it a claim or property? How do you look up the status of mines and ownership in general? Do claims include existing structures like the cabin? 

It definitely looks like an interesting one to get into. Shame there is no response.  

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Here's the other cabin we came upon that day. We were tired from earlier and quite frankly I did not check around as detailed as I should of. I really regret not opening up a window or the other door to bring in some more natural light instead of just using the flashlight. Nice little sketchy cable and rope bridge across the creek there too. 

 

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52 minutes ago, SteveHazard said:

Is it a claim or property? How do you look up the status of mines and ownership in general? Do claims include existing structures like the cabin? 

It definitely looks like an interesting one to get into. Shame there is no response.  

mylandmatters.com is usually my starting point.  From there I can get enough information to get more info from LR2000 or the county recorder.  There used to be 2 types of mining claims in the US - patented and unpatented.  Only unpatented-type claims are still possible.  If memory serves, this mine is a patented claim, made before they disallowed them (I think in the mid-70's, but I'm not sure I recall correctly). 

An unpatented claim means you hold a license to the mineral rights concurrent with certain rights of entry, along with certain exclusive use rights, to the land.  That's typical what exists now.

In days past, you could work a mine long enough to file for a patent.  Since all mineral claims originally stemmed from the Federal government, a patent application was made, in effect saying "I worked the mine as required under law, now I'd like to make this land my own."  The government would verify some facts and data, and hand you a land patent.  That meant you owned the land free and clear from that point forward; all title vested in the applicant, and the United States of America simultaneous was divested of title in the land.  It's similar to the old homesteading acts, and was meant to encourage people to work the land (be it for agriculture or minerals).  In the end, your 'reward' was title to the land itself, if you wanted it. 

It's loosely based on the labor theory of real property, i.e. if you worked the land in some useful, productive way, your labor input automatically should create title in the land against all others. 

But, that was America.  This is...I don't know what this is.  Or at least, I don't know what California is. 

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37 minutes ago, SteveHazard said:

Here's the other cabin we came upon that day. We were tired from earlier and quite frankly I did not check around as detailed as I should of. I really regret not opening up a window or the other door to bring in some more natural light instead of just using the flashlight. Nice little sketchy cable and rope bridge across the creek there too. 

 

That place is awesome.  I just got to thinking - I'm pretty sure that's in one of the X deer zones.  I'd have to grab a map and look, but if so, it wouldn't even see many hunters.  And if you had one of those tags, what a cool little spot to make camp. 

Your little girl is as goofy as mine.  Tying shoes halfway across?  Check.  Possibly brave to a fault?  Check.  Easily rattled when dad decides to mess with her?  Check.  Pretty sure mine would have ended up in the drink, though.  Actually, I take that back.  She would have made me carry her through the creek on my back, Hell be had if my boots get soaked.  (Yes, she did that to me on the east Walker several weeks ago...).  Yours is a great little exploring buddy!
 

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12 hours ago, desertdog said:

mylandmatters.com is usually my starting point.  From there I can get enough information to get more info from LR2000 or the county recorder.  There used to be 2 types of mining claims in the US - patented and unpatented.  Only unpatented-type claims are still possible.  If memory serves, this mine is a patented claim, made before they disallowed them (I think in the mid-70's, but I'm not sure I recall correctly). 

An unpatented claim means you hold a license to the mineral rights concurrent with certain rights of entry, along with certain exclusive use rights, to the land.  That's typical what exists now.

In days past, you could work a mine long enough to file for a patent.  Since all mineral claims originally stemmed from the Federal government, a patent application was made, in effect saying "I worked the mine as required under law, now I'd like to make this land my own."  The government would verify some facts and data, and hand you a land patent.  That meant you owned the land free and clear from that point forward; all title vested in the applicant, and the United States of America simultaneous was divested of title in the land.  It's similar to the old homesteading acts, and was meant to encourage people to work the land (be it for agriculture or minerals).  In the end, your 'reward' was title to the land itself, if you wanted it. 

It's loosely based on the labor theory of real property, i.e. if you worked the land in some useful, productive way, your labor input automatically should create title in the land against all others. 

But, that was America.  This is...I don't know what this is.  Or at least, I don't know what California is. 

mylandmatters... not a particularly intuitively designed website. Took me a bit to uncover the useful parts after they highlight donating and what they offer (without clearly directing you to it or showing example). Once I did find the maps... holy slow loading and horrendous UI functions is there a way to make it operate like a normal proper map? The scroll wheel doing the opposite of every other map out there is a nice touch.

That being said the info they are offering does get a little deeper and more detailed then some other sites, for free anyways. I'm still not sure if I fully understand what I'm looking at in regards to the mines. What is the determining factor if somebody owns a claim or not? If they pop up on that map period? But then when I look at the BLM reports I notice that some people have been paying their annual fees and then other people have not. 

I'm also confused as to why pay for a claim and not work it? With patented claims are people just squatting on the rights? Or in the case of the meadow mine doing it for the structure which happens to be there... which is not a bad deal to be honest. 

Looking it up supposedly foreign entities were abusing mine patents and that is why they changed it. Did they move too far the other direction... I honestly don't know here but that's kind of typical of a lot of things. Wildreness areas for example... certain areas are deserving of protection from overreaching commercial operations oh yeah while we are at it make sure to keep your evil mountain bikes and wheelbarrows out and do all your maintenance by hand. 

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I guess I wasn't clear.  There is no "squatting" on a patented claim.  You own a patented claim - the land, the minerals below, etc.  You don't pay fees on it (other than property taxes to the State or county).

For an unpatented claim, it seems common to locate a claim, pay your initial fees to secure the claim, and then do a little work and assay the ore.  If the assay comes back bad, or not economical, you let the claim lapse.  In terms of paying for a claim and not working it, it could be for future plans, speculation (common), or because 'life' got in the way. 

Hard to say for sure without asking a person.

As far as MLM goes, it is slow, but usable.  You're looking for a section of land that lists claims (lode or placer).  The info tool will bring up a window that will let you link to the BLM's records.  Those usually have names.  From there you can search a county recorder's records for that name (online in most cases) and find out who owns the claim or the land. 

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13 hours ago, desertdog said:

That place is awesome.  I just got to thinking - I'm pretty sure that's in one of the X deer zones.  I'd have to grab a map and look, but if so, it wouldn't even see many hunters.  And if you had one of those tags, what a cool little spot to make camp. 

Your little girl is as goofy as mine.  Tying shoes halfway across?  Check.  Possibly brave to a fault?  Check.  Easily rattled when dad decides to mess with her?  Check.  Pretty sure mine would have ended up in the drink, though.  Actually, I take that back.  She would have made me carry her through the creek on my back, Hell be had if my boots get soaked.  (Yes, she did that to me on the east Walker several weeks ago...).  Yours is a great little exploring buddy!
 

Both this cabin and the other one above are in X-8. Both are awesome little places, will definitely be back to make use of them in the future. They are just hidden enough that it looks like a good number of people overlook them. I wasn't able to find anything online about them. 

The kids are a riot. Mine is always wanting to take back little trinkets of essentially heavy garbage or rocks from places we go. And she is always secretly loading heavy junk into my pack or hers and then later complaining that it's heavy. Stupid things like dozens of acorns, pine cones, horseshoes (plural btw).  

This big piece of quartz... she wanted to bring it back with us. We backpacked in and it was 10 miles to get back at high elevation and a lot of uphill. I looked around and then at her and asked her I don't see your mule that's going to bring it back for you? See just keeps looking at me. You can carry it for me. 

20180614_130858.thumb.jpg.8e82893f72afa2ce746b74e5e4c69556.jpg

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17 minutes ago, desertdog said:

I guess I wasn't clear.  There is no "squatting" on a patented claim.  You own a patented claim - the land, the minerals below, etc.  You don't pay fees on it (other than property taxes to the State or county).

For an unpatented claim, it seems common to locate a claim, pay your initial fees to secure the claim, and then do a little work and assay the ore.  If the assay comes back bad, or not economical, you let the claim lapse.  In terms of paying for a claim and not working it, it could be for future plans, speculation (common), or because 'life' got in the way. 

Hard to say for sure without asking a person.

As far as MLM goes, it is slow, but usable.  You're looking for a section of land that lists claims (lode or placer).  The info tool will bring up a window that will let you link to the BLM's records.  Those usually have names.  From there you can search a county recorder's records for that name (online in most cases) and find out who owns the claim or the land. 

Is everything that shows up on the mine locator map an active unpatented claim or a patented claim that somebody owns? I just wonder why some BLM reports seem to show an up to date annual maintenance fees and others just say small miners certificated filed.  

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On 8/29/2018 at 11:06 AM, SteveHazard said:

Is everything that shows up on the mine locator map an active unpatented claim or a patented claim that somebody owns? I just wonder why some BLM reports seem to show an up to date annual maintenance fees and others just say small miners certificated filed.  

I'm not sure if mylandmatters is 100% accurate - that is a concern I have.  I think they pull from LR2000, which means it's only as good as government data!  I remember reading in the rules/regs about different fee structures based on the type of mine, # of claims held, and other factors I forget.  That could be part of it.  Generally I just use it as a guide to know if I'm trespassing or not. 

On 8/29/2018 at 10:52 AM, SteveHazard said:

Both this cabin and the other one above are in X-8. Both are awesome little places, will definitely be back to make use of them in the future. They are just hidden enough that it looks like a good number of people overlook them. I wasn't able to find anything online about them. 

The kids are a riot. Mine is always wanting to take back little trinkets of essentially heavy garbage or rocks from places we go. And she is always secretly loading heavy junk into my pack or hers and then later complaining that it's heavy. Stupid things like dozens of acorns, pine cones, horseshoes (plural btw).  

This big piece of quartz... she wanted to bring it back with us. We backpacked in and it was 10 miles to get back at high elevation and a lot of uphill. I looked around and then at her and asked her I don't see your mule that's going to bring it back for you? See just keeps looking at me. You can carry it for me. 

20180614_130858.thumb.jpg.8e82893f72afa2ce746b74e5e4c69556.jpg

It's hard to say no when they look at you like that.  And I've got 2 girls - the 2nd one hasn't figured out how exploitable I am.  That will change in a few more years. 

 

I found it's easier to just say "Yes, dear."  And do their bidding. 

"I don't want to get wet going across the river.  Will you carry me?"

"Yes, dear."

Ugh.

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2 hours ago, desertdog said:

I'm not sure if mylandmatters is 100% accurate - that is a concern I have.  I think they pull from LR2000, which means it's only as good as government data!  I remember reading in the rules/regs about different fee structures based on the type of mine, # of claims held, and other factors I forget.  That could be part of it.  Generally I just use it as a guide to know if I'm trespassing or not. 

It's hard to say no when they look at you like that.  And I've got 2 girls - the 2nd one hasn't figured out how exploitable I am.  That will change in a few more years. 

 

I found it's easier to just say "Yes, dear."  And do their bidding. 

"I don't want to get wet going across the river.  Will you carry me?"

"Yes, dear."

Ugh.

I noticed some of the property outlines looked to be off in the alpine area compared to the topo maps. I'll think the ones with fees up to date are definitely somebodies property. But then I see mines on that map located deep in the interior of a wilderness area? 

 

It was pretty easy to say no to that rock. There wasn't a chance I was taking that much extra weight back that far. 

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The ones deep in wilderness areas were probably there before the wilderness area existed as such.  I do bump into that in CA from time to time.  The USFS is constantly working to buy out private inholdings, so it could just be something that escaped notice.

That's a cool looking piece of quartz (sort of has a feldspar shear to it, though).  I would have carried it back - I don't find near-perfect slabs that size very often.  I probably would have looked for more and brought whatever my pack and my back could handle.  But that's just me, and I'm known to be a little bit of a hard charger when it comes to stuff like that.  I'm sure I'll regret it in 10 years when my spine is nothing more that gooey grit and my knees have to be replaced!

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Couple more places in alpine. These were locked/rusted shut so a lot of the footage is just of the area in general and some mountain quail hunting. I plan to go back and check out the one that is rusted closed for sure and I didn't even think to check around places for a key on the other. Looking back on the footage I noticed the bears had been trying to get in and left their muddy prints on and around the door. When I go back I think I'll go from a different direction even though it'll be even longer.  

 

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I saw a bear Monday morning.  I saw this guy Monday, just before 1900. 

 

 

 

done_deal.png

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Wow. Those are two mines I've never come across.  The flooded ones definitely need more exploration!  Nicely done video!

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Well we now know what to expect when we do! Part of me want's to take a kayak or cheap raft into the lower one for the absurdity of it. 

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One of the mine explorers in British Columbia did just that - he took a raft into a mine and paddled around.  I forget how that ended up.

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